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Informational - Science / History Behind In Situ DLC Coatings for ICE and Transmission / Gearbox Applications

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Lion77

Lion77

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DLC coatings form over time and are considered semi-permanent. So, once they form, the only way to get it out of the engine is to let it wear out over about 30-40k miles, or in a transmission / transfer case / diff about 70k-80k miles.

I make literally zero money from TriboTEX, I'm just sharing the infromation because the technology is very well tested and developed, it does do what it claims. Just don't have unrealisitc expectations.

It's not going to make a difference as big as say the Ford Performance calibration that nets your 50+HP and +100 ft-lbs more torque. But it will improve power by 1-3%, similar improvement in fuel economy, but more importantly, it enhances the robustness of the engine to severe operating conditions.

1. Enhances oil adhesion to the bearing surfaces due to the porous lattice structure of the substrate that forms, so your oil can maintain a hydrodynamic film under higher loads than it would otherwise, meaning it provides better protection during severe operation.

2. The diamond capping produces super-lubricity that reduces friction losses

3. Can provide limited "dry running" in a abnormal condition for a few minutes. Aka if your oil pan goes out and you lose oil pressure, it may provide enough short-term protection to give you time to realize you need to stop and shut of the engine to before it seizes up.

My father-in-law races dirt oval, 850 HP small block chevy's on 106 octane, tube frame chassis. They use some EP additives in their race oils like Tungsten Disulfide (works similar to TriboTEX, but does not last between oil changes as Tungsten Disulfide is a chemical EP additive like ZDDP rather than a DLC film, but has similar friction reducing properties), he lost oil pressure and did 8 laps with no oil pressure before realizing it...at 850 HP and nearly 9,000 RPM.

Once he realized that he pulled out of the race immediately and then later did a teardown of the engine thinking he fried it, to his amazement, he didn't spin any bearings, didn't burn up any rings or damage any of the came surfaces etc. The EP additive lasted long enough with no oil circulating to give him a minute of dry running and avoided frying that engine.

Anyone's decision to use it or not should really be based on the sum total of many small benefits, vs. a mindset of "I just want to make more power" etc. I'll continue to use it, but the hard part it helps people understand the actual mechanisms behind how it works as most people just to the conclusion of "snake oil" without ever actually looking at the real data, both ASTM testing and real-world testing.

I use it in my daily drivers and once I hit 10k, I'll apply it to the engine, transmission, transfer case and diffs in the RR. Hopefully this helps people make an informed choice IF it is something they think would be beneficial to them.
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stemplar

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Boy - this sounds just like an infomercial - like someone will earn money by promoting this.
Have you any of the caps that you put on top of the distributer that increases HP?
Yea, it's the new "slick 50" which was the cat's meow in the 80's and 90's and had all its fans waxing poetic about its chemical properties that they didn't understand.
 

hand-filer

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Yea, it's the new "slick 50" which was the cat's meow in the 80's and 90's and had all its fans waxing poetic about its chemical properties that they didn't understand.
And apparently they still exist. In fact the demand is so high that they're sold out of every variation they offer: Slick 50 😂
I'll stick to my regimen of 5,000 km oil changes using factory oil filters and quality synthetic oils that meet Ford's specifications (WSS-M2C961-A1)
 

Satex

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Yea, it's the new "slick 50" which was the cat's meow in the 80's and 90's and had all its fans waxing poetic about its chemical properties that they didn't understand.
Can you summarize the research you've done that lead to your conclusion?
 

hand-filer

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Can you summarize the research you've done that lead to your conclusion?
Well they were charged by the FTC for making false claims of improved engine performance and reduced engine wear so there's that.
DuPont came out years after introduction with a statement claiming that Teflon/PTFE had no useful function in a motor oil and that they would not sell it to anyone planning to use it for that purpose.
That aside who in their right mind would pour a bottle of PTFE particles into their engine? Most of it would end up in the oil filter.
Quaker State eventually bought the company and removed the PTFE from the formulation.
AFAIK only the website exists now.
 

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Satex

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Well they were charged by the FTC for making false claims of improved engine performance and reduced engine wear so there's that.
DuPont came out years after introduction with a statement claiming that Teflon/PTFE had no useful function in a motor oil and that they would not sell it to anyone planning to use it for that purpose.
That aside who in their right mind would pour a bottle of PTFE particles into their engine? Most of it would end up in the oil filter.
Quaker State eventually bought the company and removed the PTFE from the formulation.
AFAIK only the website exists now.
I didn't ask about Slick 50, and my question wasn't to you.
 

hand-filer

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I didn't ask about Slick 50, and my question wasn't to you.
Well excuse me for failing at reading comprehension.
 

Satex

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Well excuse me for failing at reading comprehension.
What response would you have preferred? Writing nothing would suggest that I considered my question answered. So, what would communicate the necessary message and avoid hurting your feelings?
 
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Lion77

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I recall slick 50 from when I was a kid, ha, it was a Teflon based oil additive that had absolutely no ASTM testing behind it for its application and was marketed as an EP additive to supposedly enhance motor oil's lubricity. The claims were completely unsubstantiated, but it was sold under the idea that "well Teflon is extremely lubricious, so let's throw it in your oil, it must work, right?"

What they found eventually was that it clogged filters while also NOT forming a tribofilm on bearing surfaces in any way, so it actually made things worse! And yet Teflon is used in the shock fluid in your own Raptors Fox Live Valve shocks...isn't that ironic now? A derivative of slick 50 in the shock fluid of your raptors very own live valve dampers, imagine that slick 50's revenge! Perhaps it was not well suited as an EP additive for motor oil, but it works well in Fox's Live Valve shocks which use their 5wt PTFE Fluid.

But seriously, those who have more than the apparent two neurons firing back and forth in their brain like the detractors above, and are willing to carefully read scientific literature, the actual testing done is very compelling, both lab testing, ASTM standardized testing (much of which is how EP additives are qualified in your 5W-30 snake oil er motor oil) and the real world use cases that validate it.

I attached quite a volume of evidence in the first few posts, including the actual SBIR Phase 1 and Phase 2 grants from NASA who apparently is in the business of giving way millions of dollars to snake oil farmers these days making "slick 50" from their snakes. Same with Argonne national labs, DoD and others who all funded and were involved in the development.

Washington State University also appears interested in "slick 50" snake oil these days. Maybe I should invest in snakes and tefflon!

A Guide to TriboTeX Nano-based Lubricant | Washington State Magazine | Washington State University

I wonder if your Ford OE spec motor oil is also really "slick 50" in disguise? It must be, because it also was subject to ASTM standardized testing and that's why you use it right? Darn those pesky ASTM slick 50 tests, fooling us all!
 
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Lion77

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Well excuse me for failing at reading comprehension.
Your excused from the class. You will receive an F for reading comprehension of the test material as clearly you did not do your homework.
 

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Lion77

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Ford Ranger Informational - Science / History Behind In Situ DLC Coatings for ICE and Transmission / Gearbox Applications 1741809343169-or
Ford Ranger Informational - Science / History Behind In Situ DLC Coatings for ICE and Transmission / Gearbox Applications 1741809362283-3z


That's some seriously good "slick 50"...

Ford Ranger Informational - Science / History Behind In Situ DLC Coatings for ICE and Transmission / Gearbox Applications 1741809556573-ex


Ford Ranger Informational - Science / History Behind In Situ DLC Coatings for ICE and Transmission / Gearbox Applications 1741809489225-82


This is why I encourage people to READ the attached material in the first few posts. There is a ton of information on its development, testing and funding sources along with real world test cases.
 

T-Rev

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Well they were charged by the FTC for making false claims of improved engine performance and reduced engine wear so there's that.
DuPont came out years after introduction with a statement claiming that Teflon/PTFE had no useful function in a motor oil and that they would not sell it to anyone planning to use it for that purpose.
That aside who in their right mind would pour a bottle of PTFE particles into their engine? Most of it would end up in the oil filter.
Quaker State eventually bought the company and removed the PTFE from the formulation.
AFAIK only the website exists now.
Slick 50 is still sold...don't think they sell direct.
Amazon.com : slick 50
 
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Lion77

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Lion77

Lion77

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U.S. Army SBIR Topic A12-022: Wedeven Gear Mesh Efficiency Test

Ford Ranger Informational - Science / History Behind In Situ DLC Coatings for ICE and Transmission / Gearbox Applications 1743683024774-xo


How much proof does anyone need? The first few posts contain all the actual ASTM testing, real world use case examples etc. READ THE MATERIAL. Then have the discussion.
 
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Lion77

Lion77

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Ford Ranger Informational - Science / History Behind In Situ DLC Coatings for ICE and Transmission / Gearbox Applications 1743683196244-v
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