Front brake pads cracked and desintegrating

[Flashe30]

34k kms, 1.5 years old, easily still 8-10mm thick.
Warranty denied because: "This is possibly because of muddy/sandy water, perhaps when offroading so this can't be claimed."

First of all, complete BS, that's because of heat. I drive sporty but not like a maniac so the Fomoco pads just are shit.
Secondly, Ford essentially is telling me they've sold me a car with offroad tires, offroad suspension, the whole Raptor shtick... but when I have an issue they blame it on offroading and it's not covered by warranty?

Oh and €930 ($958) for the front and back pads. F you Ford.

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[joordan]

why did you bring it to the repair shop?noise or what?

 

[JAC]

First of all, complete BS, that's because of heat.

Yeah, that cracking and flaking is classic brake pad overheating. What do the rotors look like? Do they show any signs of overheating? I wonder if it is just crappy friction material or if you need to be looking at increasing the thermal capacity of the braking system.

 

[John E Davies]

Ouch….. something is very wrong with Ford in your country…

John Davies
Spokane WA USA

 

[Flashe30]

why did you bring it to the repair shop?noise or what?

Back pads "needed" to be replaced and I've asked them to check the front ones bc I started to hear a light squeal when manoeuvring cold. I was expecting a regrease, not new pads.

Yeah, that cracking and flaking is classic brake pad overheating. What do the rotors look like? Do they show any signs of overheating? I wonder if it is just crappy friction material or if you need to be looking at increasing the thermal capacity of the braking system.

Rotors are OK and as I said I drive sporty but nothing insane. Nothing that the engineers shouldn't have expected when they designed the RR.

Ouch….. something is very wrong with Ford in your country…

John Davies
Spokane WA USA

That just makes me sad and mad at the same time...

 

[sikedsyko]

Hard to tell how much material is left, but I'd keep sending those pads as long as there's material left.

I'd hope that for ~$1000 for front/read brakes includes new rotors too. If so, I'd skip the new rotors unless they're damaged.

 

[DesertSand]

The composition of pads in modern vehicles does not use asbestos anymore and is basically steel on steel causing squealing especially when first driving(cold). Those pads that you show look like they are rusting and have seen more than just so called sport driving. I'm guessing the price Ford gave was installed price not just the part.

 

[Flashe30]

Hard to tell how much material is left, but I'd keep sending those pads as long as there's material left.

I'd hope that for ~$1000 for front/read brakes includes new rotors too. If so, I'd skip the new rotors unless they're damaged.

$1000 only for the pads, no rotors, but installed. Install only was like $140 though.
Like 1/3 of an inch left, 8-10mm. They were still really thick.

The composition of pads in modern vehicles does not use asbestos anymore and is basically steel on steel causing squealing especially when first driving(cold). Those pads that you show look like they are rusting and have seen more than just so called sport driving. I'm guessing the price Ford gave was installed price not just the part.

So do you work at a dealership or...?
Squealing was a new thing. Didn't occur the first 1.5 years and 30k kms.
Yes I went offroad like 1 or 2 times (like intended with a Raptor, right?) and the roads here were very muddy last fall, but that has nothing to do with the cracks.

Imho I didn't do any crazy braking and I think the brakes should be adjusted to the power and kind of car they're in, which I'm thinking they're not. I think it's normal for them to wear down more quickly with spirited driving, and not normal for them to crack and desintegrate like they did on mine.

 

[RANGER/HOBB]

34k kms, 1.5 years old, easily still 8-10mm thick.
Warranty denied because: "This is possibly because of muddy/sandy water, perhaps when offroading so this can't be claimed."

First of all, complete BS, that's because of heat. I drive sporty but not like a maniac so the Fomoco pads just are shit.
Secondly, Ford essentially is telling me they've sold me a car with offroad tires, offroad suspension, the whole Raptor shtick... but when I have an issue they blame it on offroading and it's not covered by warranty?

Oh and €930 ($958) for the front and back pads. F you Ford.

You’re in Belgium, define sporty driving in your terms?

Glazing and pad vibration causes squeal, unless their primary composition is metal. What you’re showing is glazing from high temps and riding the brake.

None-the-less, most OEM pads are non-metallic composition. They’re of organic composition, that give off higher amounts of brake dust.

The three primary brake pad compositions are ;

Non-metallic, Organic, or Non-Asbestos Organic (NAO)

Semi-metallic or Metallic (Graphite based)

Ceramic

Organic	Organic	Semi-metallic	Ceramic
Cost	Low	Average	High
Dust	Very High	Average	Very low
Noise	Low	Very High	Very low
Pedal feel	Poor	Very good	Good
Brake pad wear	Very High	Low	Very low
Brake rotor wear	Low	Very High	Low
Low-temperature performance	Average	Good	Poor
High-temperature performance	Poor	Good	Good

 

[DesertSand]

I don't think disintegrate is the correct word to describe your pads in the photo. Please describe "spirited" driving. That's a pretty broad spectrum....

 

[Flashe30]

You’re in Belgium, define sporty driving in your term?

Glazing and pad vibration causes squeal, unless their primary composition is metal. However, most OEM pads are non-metallic composition. They’re of organic composition, that give off higher amounts of brake dust.

The three primary brake pad compositions are ;

Non-metallic, Organic, or Non-Asbestos Organic (NAO)

Semi-metallic or Metallic (Graphite based)

Ceramic

So you're saying metal doesn't cause suealing and the other guys says it does...
I would've done it myself and went for something like EBC but I'm still under warranty and thus bound to the dealer.

I don't think disintegrate is the correct word to describe your pads in the photo. Please describe "spirited" driving. That's a pretty broad spectrum....

Chips were coming off, I don't know a better fitting word in English, sorry.

I live in a rural area, but that's not like rural America. In 5 min I'm at my town center and in 15 min in the nearest small city. But I do have some open roads without houses where 100 mph isn't crazy but there's also room for braking. I'm fully aware that I drive faster than most people, but I think that goes for most Raptor buyers. A Raptor is an enthusiast car (and a heavy one at that) and enthusiasts tend to drive sporty, it is what it is, that's common knowledge. So I would expect the brakes to be designed with this in mind.
I have 2 BMW M5's which I drive a lot harder and the OEM pads just wear down but no glazing.

 

[RANGER/HOBB]

So you're saying metal doesn't cause suealing and the other guys says it does...
I would've done it myself and went for something like EBC but I'm still under warranty and thus bound to the dealer.



Chips were coming off, I don't know a better fitting word in English, sorry.

I live in a rural area, but that's not like rural America. In 5 min I'm at my town center and in 15 min in the nearest small city. But I do have some open roads without houses were 100 mph isn't crazy but there's also room for braking. I'm fully aware that I drive faster than most people, but I think that goes for most Raptor buyers. A Raptor is an enthousiast car (and a heavy one at that) and enthousiasts tend to drive sporty, it is what it is, that's common knowledge. So I would expect the brakes to be designed with this in mind.
I have 2 BMW M5's which I drive a lot harder and the OEM pads just wear down but no glazing.

Correct, it’s the vibration of the pads from the two binding metallic surfaces ie, rotor and pads. However, the pads you’re showing are organic pads not metallic. Ford doesn’t use metallic or semi-metallic pads.……….🫵

Example; Lexus RCF & Porsche 911 utilize “ceramic” brake pads and they squeal. Owned both so why; the brake pads vibrate at specific harmonics at lower to mid speeds. So, at lower speeds you get squeal.

100 mph driving and stops are not sporty driving, it‘s beyond sporty, especially with a Ford Ranger truck. This is at the top operating range of the vehicles design. The Ford Ranger and RR, are not designed or have the corresponding performance brakes to sustain regular………”sporty driving “ as you call It.

Enthusiasts tend to drive sporty vehicles, ie; Porsches, Lexus RCF’s, Audi TTRS‘s on public roadways at these speeds. Not a 4,415 lbs Ranger truck which is a utility vehicle and not in the class of sporty vehicles.

Bottomline, it’s not Ford‘s issue, they were right in denying a warranty claim. It’s the issues of surpassing the designed use of the truck itself. Which you’ve demonstrated clearly in your commentary.

 

[Flashe30]

Correct, it’s the vibration of the pads from the two binding metallic surfaces ie, rotor and pads. However, the pads you’re showing are organic pads not metallic. Ford doesn’t use metallic or semi-metallic pads.……….🫵

Example; Lexus RCF & Porsche 911 utilize “ceramic” brake pads and they squeal. Owned both so why; the brake pads vibrate at specific harmonics at lower to mid speeds. So, at lower speeds you get squeal.

100 mph driving and stops are not sporty driving, it‘s beyond sporty, especially with a Ford Ranger truck. This is at the top operating range of the vehicles design. The Ford Ranger and RR, are not designed or have the corresponding performance brakes to sustain regular………”sporty driving “ as you call It.

Enthusiasts tend to drive sporty vehicles, ie; Porsches, Lexus RCF’s, Audi TTRS‘s on public roadways at these speeds. Not a 4,415 lbs Ranger truck which is a utility vehicle and not in the class of sporty vehicles.

Bottomline, it’s not Ford issue they were right in denying a warranty claim. It’s the issues of surpassing the designed use of the truck itself. Which you’ve demonstrated clearly in your commentary.

This can lead to endless discussions I'm afraid. Imho the pads should just wear down and not get glazed over, it's a sign the pads can't handle the heat the car is able to generate.

Let's say I consider the RR as a sporty truck and as I've said before I have other enthusiast cars but they get driven way too little and especially in winter time. Could've bought a regular Ranger if I just wanted a daily and nothing more. I expected more from the Raptor and as you can see I'm very much paying premium prices over here.

 

[Lion77]

I'd look for aftermarket ceramics to take the heat better. Also consider some slotted rotors to help evacuate those hot gasses just like track cars use. Consider also the truck is governor limited to just 107 MPH...it's NOT a Mustang GT or BMW M3 / M5 etc.

I can't think of any off-road applications where you would be driving 100 MPH off-road and sure as heck NOT over a jump unless you want to be this guy in the F-150 Raptor:

Ultimate Crash Battle! Raptor FULL Send to FLAT, Jeep Rubicon gets ROLLED by the Whoops

Watch the full video, both destroy their vehicles although the Jeep had it worse as he ended up rolling it towards the end. The RR is designed for off road use as a Baja Truck, not 1/4 mile pulls with high-speed breaking zones.

Next-Gen Ranger Raptor Conquers the Baja 1000| Ford New Zealand

Just look at the snippets of it driving in the desert, what speeds do you think they are driving at? NOT 100 MPH! Before you say, "that's slow", I'd say, try taking your M5 on that course...you'd get 5 feet, maybe.

You're just not going to be regularly hitting those kinds of speeds in real off-road and rock crawling / trail...were talking a few MPH. It's a Baja / Rock Rawling / Trail Truck, speeds are much lower, think 30 - 60 mph for most high speed off-road in production classes because the terrain is so rough.

It's brutal on tires, struts, suspension arms, drive drain, shock / impact, dust contamination and heat, but not so much brake pads like a track car. Real baja racing isn't like 100-140 MPH circuit track racing. It's about just surviving the brutal course that takes days and multiple drivers sets to complete (usually 6-8 drivers in pairs), not hours.

So, perhaps you need to change your perspective on what the truck SHOULD do. If you insist on making high speed runs, you have to upgrade the brakes to handle the heat...but I'm not sure that's very realisitic. It's a 5,300lb truck, not a 3500-3800lb mid-sized car.

I cooked the pads on my 2016 Mustang GT with 15" rotors, Bembo 6 piston calipers and track pads when I tracked it, and I was only hitting max of 120~130 MPH on the straights before entering braking zones. That car was 3,751 lbs on the scale. It just isn't practical to put 15" rotors on a truck that needs massive tires to handle the rought terrain as you'd either need massive wheels and tires to accommodate them (much more unsprung mass to control than there already is) or you'd need lower profile tires that couldn't handle real off-roading.

Sorry for the long post, but there's a lot more to off-roading than meets the eye. Just like tracking a road car, its own thing. My advice, find some off-roading and you'll quickly come to appreciate what the Raptor can really do, stuff that would literally trash your M5 or my previous Mustang GT in seconds.

Driving a Raptor on the road at high speed is like taking a Prius to the circuit track...wrong application!

 

[Lion77]

FYI, something like this: DBA x Tickford Racing Next Gen Ford Ranger Brake Upgrade

And, before you say silly stuff like your M5 is designed for that from the factory...try going on the forums where people track them...they change out EVERYTHING because it just doesn't hold up under real track conditions. Track is track. 100 mph speed runs in a 5,300lb truck is like tracking your M5!

Most factory cars are not truly set up for real track work unless you get something like a GT350 Track Package, very specific and not very street livable. I'm sure they have an M5 Track edition or package that's got significant upgrades for the brakes, but they probably have issues on the street like not biting in the cold (my GT's factory track pads had that issue, I'd get ZERO bite for seconds in the cold weather, almost got me in an accident the first time as your brakes just don't work at all until there's some heat).

Why do you think the RR is gov. limited at 107 MPH? My little 191 HP Mazda 3 is governed at 130...my 2016 Mustang GT was gov ltd at 150. One other option, enter your braking zone sooner and use intermittent braking.

So, apply brake, then ease up for a second, then apply again. It will take longer to stop, and you need a longer brake zone, but that could prevent hitting the thermal limits.

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